"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing."
- Wernher Von Braun (1912-1977)
"The rocket worked perfectly except for landing on the wrong planet," Von Braun remarked to his colleagues after London was hit by the first V-2 (he led the development) on 7 September 1944.
Re:Wrong planet
vsergu on 2004-02-12T14:32:25
“‘Once ze rockets are up, who cares vhere zey come down. Zat's not my department,’ says Wernher von Braun.” —Tom Lehrer
Belief in God and in immortality thus gives us the moral strength and the ethical guidance we need for virtually every action in our daily lives. -- Wernher von Braun, who designed and built the most powerful weapons the IIIrd Reich.
Re:Authority
Mr. Muskrat on 2004-02-12T18:15:57
Von Braun and 500 others surrendered to the U.S. He and the other rocket scientists were taken back to the U.S. In 1955, he became an American citizen. Von Braun was held in high regard by the scientific community and went on to work for the U.S. military and later NASA.
I'm curious. Why do you insinuate that he was a noted Nazi? The very page that you linked seems to show that he was a Christian. You can't be both a Nazi and a Christian.
Re:Authority
rafael on 2004-02-12T18:53:46
Of course you can be a Nazi and a Christian! Hitler was catholic, to begin with. And during the IInd world war, Germany was full of good Christians, both Catholics and Protestants, who were applauding the Hitlerian dictature. Germany didn't turn magically into a non-Christian country in 1933. And why do you think that Jean-Paul II publicly apologized to Jews recently?But that's not my point. My point is that quotes are by nature out of context, and are coloured by the personality of the person quoted. For evidence, take a random quote from, say, Gandhi, and attribute it to Machiavelli or to Stalin. You'll see it changes slightly... Thus by quoting an unrepentant nazi as von Braun you're endangering the meaning of your quote. (Lots of nazi scientists worked for the NASA. The medecin who worked on pressurized scaphanders for American astronauts used to experiment the effects of violent pressure changes on "human material" in Auschwitz... nothing to be proud of.)
Meanings
Mr. Muskrat on 2004-02-12T22:58:40
We obvious think of different things when we see the words Nazi and Christian.
To me a Nazi it one who supported Hitler and the Third Reich, not because they had to but because they agreed with his views and actions.
A Christian would never agree that genocide or concentration camps were the right thing to do, therefore, no Nazi can be a Christian even if they attend a particular kind of church.
A Catholic can be Christian but being Catholic does not make you a Christian!
Attendance is not what makes you a Christian. To be a Christian, you must accept Christ as your personal savior. It's asking Christ to forgive you of your sins and making the pledge that you will do your best to never sin again.
Re:Meanings
rafael on 2004-02-13T01:35:25
While I agree with your definition of nazi, I have to point out: being Catholic does not make you a Christian -- this is just complete nonsense. Open any dictionary. If a Catholic is not a Christian, so what is he? a Muslim?"Christian" means very precisely "pertaining to the Christ and his teachings". Ergo, everyone who professes to believe in the teachings of the Christ, (so every Catholic for example), is Christian, by definition. Lots of nazis were pious Christians indeed: a concentration camp is not an unchristian institution as long as you believe (like the nazis) that the people who are sent in there are not human. Likewise, Africans were not considered human by the Christian slave-traders. If they seem to be unchristian to you now, that's just because the Christian doctrine evolved in the meantime. And it's very probable that today's average Christian will look very unchristian in the eyes of the Christians of the future centuries, just like nowadays Christians find that the Holy Inquisition was unchristian.
Re:Meanings
Mr. Muskrat on 2004-02-13T02:19:30
Any Catholic that is not a Christian is a non-believer.
"Ergo, everyone who professes to believe in the teachings of the Christ, (so every Catholic for example), is Christian, by definition."
So by your own words, you have proven my point. Attending a Catholic church does not make one a Catholic any more than it makes them a Christian! One must profess to believe in the teachings of Christ, ergo, in Christ Himself.
How can a believer in Christ believe that Jews are not human? Christ Himself is half-Jewish! [ On His mother's side
;-) ] You too can know Jesus!
Re:Meanings
Mr. Muskrat on 2004-02-13T01:39:09
Pay off all your debtsRe:Authority
neuroball on 2004-02-12T23:11:38
Answers per sentence mentioned:
Yes. Yes. Yes & No. Yes. JP II apologized because the church didn't stand against the Nazi's for most of the third reich.
Fact: Hitler hated religions (of any kind) and a lot of Priests and Pastors ended their lives in the same vecinity as most german jews.
Hitler planned on replacing all religions with a state religion and actively got rid of all organizations... he just hadn't time yet to rid his third reich of christianity.
Don't understand me wrong... I know nationalsocialism is a bad thing... but so is generalizing. WHY? Generalizing is one of the basics that make up nationalsocialism! Next to nationalism... patriotism... and a few other ism's.
Otherwise you are quite right... quotes are always to be seen in the timeframe they were uttered with special attention to who said the quote in which situation.
/oliver/
